Quitters never win...

[Gabby]

...but what if there's no chance of winning in the first place.

Tommy is a very good athlete. He has always been the best player on his baseball team. Last year, his team wasn't very good. Over the winter, he started to grumble that he didn't want to play and prefered soccer. We made a decision (with Tommy) that he could play rec-league soccer and decided to remain in rec-league baseball. I was concerned about trying to play sports 7 days a week, and Tommy was concerned about being with his good friend whose dad coaches the baseball team.

Long story -- but the soccer has been great. He will probably choose to play travel soccer in the future. Baseball is a nightmare.

We lost last night 21-1. Had it not been for the mercy rule each inning -- we'd still be playing. Picture the Bad News Bears...then make it worse. Tommy is made easily a dozen plays to first base right into the first baseman's glove and the kid dropped every one of them. Tommy got 2 hits (in 2 at bats), but both times was forced out at second (not the batter's fault -- but Tommy was ticked).

He could barely hold it together on the field. He really, really, really, wants to quit.

I told him about Barry Sanders and how he was a great player on a horrible team and how Barry worked to earn records (I didn't tell him Barry quit). We talked about committment and how the other kids look up to him and he needs to be a leader. I'm not sure if that will last for 6 more weeks.

Does anyone have any advice? We don't want him to hate playing. Next year, we can put him on a Federation team (he's had several invitations).

[JayDee]

Hang in there!

Caleb played his first year of competetive baseball last year. He was also placed on the Bad News Bears Team. Caleb is 8 and wears a size 6, most of his teamates were the same size. Other teams (which had been "fairly" picked were heads taller and more experienced. Every player on Caleb's team were first timers. Needless to say the season was PAINFUL. We lost every game. Although the kids showed improvement, they were teased and made fun of at school. The kids would yell "easy win" every time they played. The kids were down all the time, they didn't know why they should keep practicing because it didn't seem to make a difference.

And then playoffs started...Miraculously, we won the first round. That was worth the whole season. We went into the second round knowing this was are last game. )at least we had won one) Things began to click and again, they won. We were stunned. Third round, another win. Now, suddenly, we were in the championship game against the top seeded team. The game was played on the "big" field under the lights at night. They suddenly looked like a different team. They won that game by 5 runs and were the league champions. It was, by far, the most exciting thing I've ever seen.

This year, there little miracle team was split up, but I've seen the other players when Caleb's team plays them and they are all first rate players, the stars of the team. This years "all-star" team will be made up primarily by players from Caleb's original Bad News Bears Team.

My point is this, hang in there Tommy! If you work hard, practice hard, it will pay off. Don't let this year turn you off to baseball. Every time you (and your teamates) practice or play a game you are getting better!

[Gabby]

Wow! What a great story. We don't have playoffs...any victory will be much celebrated!

[pocket]

Wonderful story, JayDee! I wish that could be a the result with Tommy's team.

I'm torn by Tommy's situation. Nobody wants to see their kid miserable. If he could concentrate on his own performance and doing his best, and ignoring the rest, then I'd encourage him to stay with the team. He's a good example for the rest of the team. Good luck with that. It's not easy for a competitive kid to feel dragged down by a lackluster team.

The last few years, my grandson was in a team that had deadly serious coaches thatconcentrated on the "stars" in games and practices. They didn't rotate players unless the parents objected. The bullies of the team were allowed to bad-mouth the others. He wasn't put on the pitcher's mound unless they were losing badly, anyway.....that kind of thing. This year, he's in a different town and program, and he's loving baseball again.

I guess I'd question if Tommy had a problem with the team only, or with baseball in general.

[Slitter]

...any victory will be much celebrated!

I think that might be the root of your problem right there. Who organizes celebrations and what is celebrated? If it's winning, then no small wonder he isn't having fun. Every loss is a failure. Baseball at that age isn't about being Babe Ruth. Or at least it shouldn't be. It's about learning the game and having fun with your friends.

What you ought to do is celebrate after every game, win or lose. Nothing fancy - popsicles or ice cream bars or such would do. Focus on the friendship and the fun, not the final score. Talk about good plays and stuff (try to mention everyone at least now and then). Make it into an ego-building thing instead of an ego-deflating thing and I think Tommy and all the other kids would enjoy it a lot more.

[Fuel]

Slitter, that is great advice.

[Virgo6]

Slitter you are right on the money with this one. 2 out of my 4 children were on teams for different sports and I went through this so I can relate.
The children have to use that time to learn all about the sport, the rules to play the sport, to be able to work as a team member, make friends and HAVE FUN! It should be a growing experience.
Too many times some parents are the ones that create all the problems. They make fun of the players that aren't as accomplished as their child, they yell at the umpires or coaches, they scream at their own child to make them work harder.........they don't build up self-esteem, they rip it to sheds.
Each child should be celebrated for who they are and how they improve or add to the team no matter how small the accomplishment.

[Gabby]

I think my "winning will be celebrated" is being taken out of context.

There is a world of difference between losing in a good effort and having absolutely no chance of winning and getting slaughtered. While winning shouldn't be the only thing that is celebrated -- it is important. What Tommy is having trouble dealing with is that many of his teammates are not putting forth any effort to learn the game.

Last night, one boy had a ground ball hit at his feet. He walked to second base (he was playing second) and let out a "Yee Ha!" Unfortunately, the kid never picked up the ball. It was still sitting in the dirt when the other player landed safely at second. We have kids who don't know when to run (even with a base coach telling them to run!) or what a force out is...nothing. It's not for a lack of coaches teaching them...they just don't care. In one ear and out the other.

Sorry -- I can't celebrate that. No one should. I'm not blaming the kids -- the parents should be teaching them to play the game or not signing them up to play it. I honestly don't think I'm guilty of a "win at all costs" mentality. I am guilty of holding kids accountable for effort and game smarts.

My son is just like me. He can't tolerate the fact that his teammates aren't trying to get better. I have tried to emphasize his personal stats and point out when others do well (I'm the first one to congratulate a kid for getting someone out, a good throw, a well hit ball...). We do the "treat thing" for every game.

Thanks for the advice -- I do appreciate it.

[Sunburntbeatle]

Gabby, after that last post, I think I would let him quit if that is what he truely wanted to do.

We have a friend that coaches baseball here...he told us this is the last year because the kids have no heart and the parents don't care either, so he's done after this year.

[Virgo6]

I understand what you are going through Gabby and you know your child better than anyone. Each of my children were different. I remember the 4th grade when all the kids were allowed to take instruments in grade school. My oldest daughter was the only one who followed through with hers until the end of high school. Cause she was good at it. The other 3 dropped theirs after a year because I wouldn't allow them to quit before then. But each one found their talent.
If Tommy is that unhappy in baseball because he is seeing that the other kids don't put the effort in, then let him quit. Try another league or let him excel in soccer and do the traveling team. Send him to soccer camp because he will be with others who are just as capable as he is. Let him try a swim team or some other sport. No sense in causing the kid to have anxiety every time he goes to baseball. We all have enough to cope with in life. My son was in Kindergarten ( he is now 31) and I remember him running in the door yelling "I want to join the soccer league". I didn't even know he knew anything about soccer. Apparently, one of his friend's dad was coaching a team and was asking his son to recruit some kids in his class. I said okay and he joined. Well, in plain English he sucked. He was all for it for a couple of days, but when he realized he had to go to practice twice a week and play in all kinds of weather including snow.......he prodded along getting to the field on time, played like he had a load in his pants, and just wasn't interested in it at all. Meanwhile, my husband and I had to sit there cheering and froze our butts off. He used to complain every time he had to go to practice. Finally, I said "do you want to play this game or not" and he said no. I let him quit. He was driving us nuts. He ended up playing baseball for our church and he loved that. Played bar leagues and all when he grew up. But soccer just wasn't for him. Its a hard decision both you and Tommy have to make, but he isn't benefiting from this experience if its making him miserable. He needs to be with others who care and not just put on a team because a friend recuited him, or his parents thought "little Johnny needs something to keep him busy". Good luck to you, Tommy and the family.

[Gabby]

Your soccer story brought a huge smile to my face, Virgo! :)

Well -- I finally got home (after Charlie's team won again) and got some private time w/Tommy. He spent the day with his 3 teammates who go to his school and I think they must have given him enough "strokes" to make him feel valued. They have a practice on Sunday and Tommy didn't act like he wasn't going to go.

:luck:

I talked to a lot of coaches today and they all said to take it one game at a time and keep emphasizing the positives with him (like Slitter said) and teaching Tommy to be a teacher on the field. Hopefully he'll learn to say, "good try!" instead of "get your head out of your butt and make the play!" Where do kids learn this stuff?

[Slitter]

Hopefully he'll learn to say, "good try!" instead of "get your head out of your butt and make the play!"

:rofl: Yeah, that'd be a good start! :D

If Tommy is that significantly better than the other kids, maybe you could talk to his coach about making him team captain. That would give him some "official" leadership and authority with the other kids. It would probably be a great growth experience for him too.

I'm sorry if I put too much emphasis on your earlier remark. That was just how it struck me when I read it.

I'm a big believer in behaviorism - reward (celebrate) what you want to see more of. It the long term, that might be winning. At the moment, it's just "getting their heads out of their butts and making the play". ;)

[UkraineMom]

I am glad you are going to give it more time... to me it is the coach that needs to step it up and inspire those kids to try their best ... My DH and I have coached for awhile and although you cannot force a child to try you are responsible for motivating the kids and teaching them... until they are 13 or so LL should be educational not competitive but it dosen't always work out that way

Good Luck

[Virgo6]

Hey Gabby, Whats the update on Tommy and baseball?
How is he and the team doing? Things any better?

[Gabby]

Well -- he's still playing.

We had an extra practice and only 1/2 the team showed (the half that didn't need to), but the coach took MrG's advice and started only playing the kids who might potentially field a ball in the in-field. That helped (although he still rotates them too much for my taste -- they need to learn a specific position IMO).

The pirates are hitting better and not getting clobbered. I started keeping stats for Tommy and that is also helping. I think the end of soccer season helped, too. Since bball is the only game in town right now -- it's easier to convince him to play. Also -- the Tigers are hot -- so baseball is making a comeback in terms of "chatter" too.

:) Thanks for asking!

[Slitter]

Hey Gabby, the Cardinals will be in Detroit this weekend. If Tommy wants to see a Tigers game, this should be a great matchup! :)

[Gabby]

Sold Out!

:)

We've been watching every night and it's nice to have the sounds of baseball back in our house. Last night the family had a great conversation about the designated hitter rule and I got to tell about my first MLB game as a 5-year old in Milwaukee.

We'll be watching all the games. I may try to take them to see Roger Clemens pitch next week. Probably completely lost on them...but when they're older they can say they saw him.

Guess what other news we have --

A win!!!!

:offwall:

The kids won last night 15-11. Tommy had a great game. Actually, since the big blow up (and when I started doing Tommy-stats) a lot of the other kids have responded. They have a spring in their step and actually had a good base running effort last night that kept them alive. The coach really listened to MrG about putting the "haves" in the in-field more and all the kids are a lot happier. Tommy isn't complaining so much and is trying to take a better leadership position. He's learning to "yell" more appropriately. :)

[Slitter]

Sold Out!

:)

Wow. See? I told you it'd be a great match up. Looks like lots of folks think the same.

Congrats to the Pirates on their first win. :clap: It's that much sweeter when you've had to struggle to get there.

Congrats to Tommy too for taking on a leadership role. Regardless of how he fields or hits, that's a skill that will serve him his entire life. Good job, Tommy! :thumb:

[Virgo6]

Oh Gabby, that is super news. Go Pirates!!!!! He must have been one happy guy! and what a great thing him taking on leadership! Like Slitter said that will help him all through his life. Tell Tommy is he TOM TERRIFIC!!!!!

[UkraineMom]

In the mean time our Coach got sick of the new rules the LL we are playing because they make the games into giant walkfests... booooooooooring ...... but he just cancled the last 3 games... what does that teach if you don't like the rules just quit???? I hate the newest rules, I am the first to complain but, UGH! We have a great team and we won all but 3 games 2 losses 1 tie ....

[Slitter]

That stinks, UKM. You're so right about it being a bad lesson. I think the kids are fine but the adults are batty.

OMG, I sure hope the Cards get their act together before they get to Detroit. Tonight had to have been one of the worst games I ever saw! The final score - 20-6 sums it up pretty well. :rolleyes: It looked like one of Tommy's early season games! ;)

[JayDee]

Glad thing are going better! :thumb:

[Gabby]

OMG, I sure hope the Cards get their act together before they get to Detroit.

They looked good -- but the Tigers were just relentless!

The boys and I cheered our heads off last night and today. I kept thinking about Slitter having the exact opposite response to plays that we were having. Go Tigers!

[Slitter]

Wow, we sure did have a bad week. I could kill our entire bull pen! :rolleyes:

But hey, I am a good sport so I made a commemorative maggot for Gabby and Tommy:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/stlslitter/tigerfanmaggot.gif

[Mouse9]

Slitter, I've been following your "maggot" creations this last week and I have to grin over it all if not LOL.

If I didn't know about that, I think I would've considered your "maggot" giving as a little mean. (Maggots bring to mind all of those icky parts in CSI that sometimes let our imaginations get the better of us. I have great imagination and maggots are not pleasant.)


It sounds like your players played about as good as a maggot team could've. Ha Ha.

Personally, I didn't watch the game. Neither team gave me the desire to watch on t.v. (if it was there).

It is a lot of fun to go to any type of game with our children, I think. Sometimes they say some funny things in response to happenings.

Anything funny said by our Charlie, Gabby. Or maybe Tommy? I always enjoy those new tidbits.

I have one my granddaughter said the other day so I might have to go resurrect the Charlie said thread to tell you all.

[Slitter]

If I didn't know about that, I think I would've considered your "maggot" giving as a little mean.

I can see how that might be possible but I think Gabby reads about everything on these boards. Between that and the fact that the "maggot" thread was pretty active for a while there, I assumed she would "get it" and take it in the fun and playful spirit in which it was intended.

Since she hasn't reacted in any way, perhaps I was wrong.

[Gabby]

:)

Actually, I completely avoided the thread about maggots. I usually read in the morning, and since it said "a gross start," I knew that I couldn't read and eat cheerios at the same time.

However, I am very perceptive and realized the maggots were meant in a loving way! :luxlove:

[Slitter]

You should check that thread sometime when you're not eating. We (ok, mostly I) got pretty silly. We've got a whole clothing line for maggots now. :crazy:

Glad you knew I was too lazy to go to that amount of trouble just to be mean! :)

[Virgo6]

AHHHH Gabby.........you didnt know about the maggots. Its really not disgusting. Just something funny that happened to me like with Slitters ants and we have had a ball with our little maggots. How do you think I feel with the avator Slitter made me....I am The Maggot Lady! LOL It is a funny thread and you should read it. The clothing line is hysterical. We had a lot of fun on there.

[Slitter]

Virgo didn't mention her own genius with her various reality show concepts. Reality shows for maggots, that is. :D

[Gabby]

The Pirates finished their season -- they won 3 games. Two over a team that didn't win any. :(

Last night Tommy had another great game and a relative of a player congratulated him and told him he should be playing in a better league. That made him feel good. A friend of mine asked Tommy if he liked playing soccer or baseball better and Tommy said, "both" which made us happy. I was afraid he'd give up on baseball.

So -- he (and I) learned some very valuable life lessons. MrG and I have both let him know how proud we are that he didn't quit the team.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the summer being gameless! Soccer starts just before school does...then I'm back out in my folding chair.

[Typhoonmary]

A winner on many levels. If you live in a large town, sports are such a good way to become part of the community. In a smaller place, I imagine teammates become friends for life.
Any game day seemed to be a red letter day for grandpas and grandmas and other assorted relatives when my boys were on teams. I became much better acquainted with my city through my kids.

Does Tommy have a favorite soccer position to play?

[Gabby]

Does Tommy have a favorite soccer position to play?

Right now, he's still playing 7 v. 7 soccer. He'll play anything! Mom does not like having him play goalkeeper. I always said that I didn't want my boys to wind up as placekickers or goalkeepers!

In baseball he's a great shortstop or 1st baseman.

[pocket]

I'm glad it turned out well for Tommy. It was a tough situation to be in for an athlete.

[tahitisweetie]

Great lessons learned. I'm glad it turned out so good for you both.

We start "fall league baseball" end of August and Brett is moving up from t-ball. He was in sort of the game boat ... just too good for that league although his age puts him there. His coach put in a good word for him so they are letting him move up. (He's almost 7 anyways...)

[Virgo6]

Glad to hear that Tommy ended his baseball season on a up note. And the fact that he didn't get disillusioned that his team didn't come in first. He was a winner in so many other ways and those lessons will last him a life time. I had a daughter who was a goalkeeper on a co-ed soccer team........even with the mouthguard I was a nervous wreck. She didn't have one injury all those seasons. She learned lessons also. She and I fought the school system in the late 70's when she was told that she couldn't play a trumpet....that was an instrument for boys. They offered her a violin or flute. We won. She became the first girl in our huge school district with 11 elementary schools to play the trumpet. And she excelled in the instrument and played it all through high school. She has been fighting for years against glass ceilings in companies in a so-called "Men's World". Now she is an attorney who still has to try to fit into the "Boy's Club" and she is doing it. Tommy will succeed in all he does, especially with his supportive family behind him. Enjoy the little time you have before Soccer starts again. Do they still have you bring cut up oranges? Oh, I remember those days. My son played too. In the snow, rain and heat the games went on. Great end to your baseball story about the Pirates.

[Gabby]

Do they still have you bring cut up oranges?

:biglaugh:

My husband thinks the oranges ruined America!

We now have elaborate treat assignments. Usually it's some sort of juice box/gatorade and a bagged snack (chips, popcorn, grips...) Some moms try to out-do the others by bringing ice cream or full sized drink bottles. Forgetting your snack day will put you in mommy-purgatory for a long, long time!

[Virgo6]

Are you kidding? What happened to healthy snacks? lololol We were only allowed to bring cut up oranges and Juice or Gatorade. Only time extra snacks were given was when there was the end of the season party and all the parents chipped in and the coach and his wife brought the food and beverages to the field. So now even snacks have become a way for parents to outdo one another. I feel sorry for you moms nowadays. I know I must sound like some weirdo talking about the olden days. But we had birthday parties in our homes with little trinkets and goodie bags to bring home. The birthday child received nice but reasonably priced gifts. Now I understand the bigger the better as far as parties and gifts have become expensive.
When I worked at a live theater up to two years ago and handled the Children's Theater on Sats., moms would confide in me that they only wanted to have the birthday party for a few kids and yet it was expected to invite the whole class. Also our parties which included a ticket to the show, plus soda/juice and a good size goodie bag for $11 a child was a good deal.
The birthday child was free. These nice moms told me that the parents of the children invited expected tickets for them and siblings to go to the show also because they didn't want to drive there and then have to wait an hour and a half for the party to end. They could have driven to a KMart near by and wasted some time. Anyway, these parties would cost some of these moms hundreds of dollars. I gave them any discount I could. I felt so bad.
Things have really gone crazy. Or is it just me?

[Gabby]

Things have really gone crazy. Or is it just me?

It's not just you. I feel like things are getting somewhat back to "normal," but my children attend a school where not everyone is a "have." That keeps things a little more in perspective.

I just got Queen Bee Moms from the library and can't wait to read it. The author takes a look at how peer pressure that used to seem limited to teenagers is now flourishing in suburbia amongst moms.

[Slitter]

I'm glad that Tommy (and you) stuck it out. It was one of those "when life hands you lemons" situations. If Tommy picked up some leadership skills - and it sounded like he was beginning to at least - then he certainly made lemonade. :)

Kids sports do weird things to parents. I didn't know about the snacks competition (sheesh, when I played softball all we ever had was water) but it seems to be a big ego thing for the parents. Even more than for the kids. My folks know a guy who did or does referee kids basketball games. In one game, a parent didn't like his call and hit him in the face with a chair and knocked a couple of teeth out! That's just crazy.