Any suggestions????????

[Mouse9]

I just finished catching up on Frawniemae's sons mishap and how she handled it with such great parenting.

Well, I think I need some help. It is a one that happens or reoccurs every year. I'd like some input and ideas.

Here's the problem: Son isn't doing his assignments in three of his 6 classes. Or, if he is doing them, he isn't handing them in. (Science, Language Arts, and American Studies) He goes to a homework club Monday through Thursday and does all of his homework there except for any long range assignments which I usually have to ask him about when I hear from other parents about what their children are doing.

Starting this quarter he has numerous zeroes. He starts off the quarter turning things in, getting A's, maybe a B. Then it drops to a D, then F's. I keep checking the Parent connection to see why. It shows he has zeroes. We talk to him. No punishment, but talk the first time. (He actually had 3 zeroes when we talk to him.) I check online again, the next week. He gets 4 more!!!! We ground him. No T.V., video games, no outings with friends. This week I check again. 3 more zeroes, one grade brought up to a C but and F in science which was a C the week before. another zero and 3 50% assignments. I decide to feed him my zero meals again. (It worked before.) (Zero meals consist of sauteed vegetables, string cheese, 2 peanut butter sandwiches, then either an apple or a salad - depending on what I have. Water to drink.

I have emailed the teachers and they say he is able but not motivated. He was doing great during wrestling season. He is in a wrestling club now. It is usually enough motivation. We spend a lot of time and money watching, going to, making sure he has everything he needs for wrestling.

He also doesn't have any chores around the house during the school year. It is optional and up to them. If they want spending money they have to do chores. He chooses not to. I also give $20 if they get on honor roll. Last quarter he missed it by getting 2 extra 'B's. Honor roll is 3.5 or better which equals no more than 3 B's and the rest A's.

I'm about ready to pack up his room of anything "fun"....his books, his guitar, his stereo, etc. I've never had to go this far before.

Any suggestions?

[Slitter]

Hey Mouse, I'm not a parent as you know but performance problems crop up in a lot of areas outside of parenting and this time I may actually have a useful tip for you. Some years ago I read a really terrific book. It's called "Analyzing Performance Problems or You Really Oughta Wanna" by Rober Mager. It's short and very easy to read.

In a nutshell, it says there are five reasons why people don't perform:

Lack of Knowledge/Training.
Lack of Proper Tools.
Lack of Standards.
Lack of Feedback.
Lack of Consequences, both positive and negative.


The book has a flowchart to show how you can go through and determine the source of the problem and develop appropriate solutions and it gives examples. Sometimes just looking at the basic list above is enough to see what's missing. You can get a used copy of the book at Amazon for $0.73.

Right off the bat though and only knowing what you've said in your post. I think the kid has found a rather huge loophole in the consequences thing. He does well when he has to to participate in wrestling and then lets it slide off again as soon as the season is over. Seems to be working for him too. Does he think he can use his wrestling creds to get through his whole life?

[Virgo6]

Mouse, I don't think you mentioned how old he is? Have you tried to talk with him to see if something is bothering him? I found the best place to talk to mine when they were growing up was in the car. They are basically stuck with you while you are driving somewhere. There is no one around so they used to open up. Sometimes if we were in a really heavy discussion we would end up sitting in the driveway chatting for a half an hour or so after the car was turned off.
You said it reoccurs once a year. Is it always around the same time?
How is he around the house? Does he participate with the family? Is he talkative about what is going on in his life, or is everything secretive? I raised 3 daughters and one son, and I know my son never was as motivated as his sisters. He always did just enough work to get by and nothing more. He was fine in elementary school, but once he got into jr. and sr. high he became a slacker. He was an average student in college also. But as an adult, he is totally different. Anal in fact. He is a very hard worker and wants to succeed.
With my son alot of it had to do with the fact that he started school younger than the other children in his class. He was immature. Lack of self-esteem also because he was short until high school and got picked on. And then suddenly he grew and he was 6'3". Good luck Mouse. Try to get into his head alittle and see if when this problem with grades occurs something else is going on in his life that is stressing him out.

[Gabby]

I obviously see this a lot.

First, I'd take him to a doctor for a very extensive physical. The kind that includes drug testing and an evaluation for attention problems, depression, or other psychological issues. I'd have the doctor (privately) discuss these issues as well as making sure diet, exercise, and sleep are adequate. Nearly all of my "smart enough kids" who don't live up to their potential are either using recreational drugs (including alchohol), are not sleeping enough, or have a neurological disorder.

Sounds harsh, but I'd make sure it wasn't something "treatable" first.

Very few kids are really "just lazy" there's usually something going on. Some pretend to be lazy because they aren't academically capable, but this doesn't seem to be what's going on here. If it turns out that it's just a motivation problem (see Slitter's post), then I'd seek professional help to form a plan.

One of my colleagues started her not-so-motivated-middle school aged kids on a "pay it forward" college plan when they entered high school. Basically, they paid her "tuition" before each quarter and she reimbursed them ONLY if they earned the grades (I think only A's earned back all of their OWN money). The remaining money went into a college savings fund, but they had to pay their college tuition "up front" too. If they earned a certain GPA in college, they were reimbursed. Both of her kids are now in medical school. I wish I had the "balls" to do that to my kids!

Anyway -- good luck. I know it's not easy. If I really knew how to fix it -- I'd quit teaching and earn a million bucks a month fixing kids like these. :(

[AvecLion]

I have no answers for you, Mouse - but I understand. DJ is failing academics. The only thing he's passing is his shop. And it's from missing assignments and lack of effort. Numeerous conferences, phone calls, the kid's been grounded for ages - but nothing seems to help. Sad thing, he knows he's messing up but all his promises to improve turn out to be empty.

[Mouse9]

He's 14 years old and in the 8th grade. We have been having this problem with him since he was in 4th grade. Anything that the teacher doesn't make them hand in right that day and done in class finds it way to alternate destinations. In 4th grade it was his closet. He had 32 assignments either partially completed or not done at all, if it was homework, in there stuck behind other stuff. Every year it has gotten better (or not as much) but that could be because his teachers and I are on him as soon as we see any zeros.

We (my husband and I) think his main problem is that he has the strongest will I've ever seen in a kid. You can reward him for everything. You can ground him for every missed paper. It doesn't matter to him. He has this mind set that one or two zeros won't hurt his grade. Then we show him how even one zero lowers his grade and he says "Oh, I can raise it next week." Then we show him how more zeros make it so he can't ever get good grade in a subject and then he says "So what. The teacher ...blah, blah, blah." Which boils down to him not taking responsibility for it.

I am really considering that doctor thing, but, I must say I don't think they will find anything. He is healthier than anybody I know when I put him on strict healthy food. I've been letting up since he is older and I can't be there when he eats his lunch. My husband and I cook a hot meal for him every school day and sometimes on the weekends too. He has an homemade egg McMuffin with sausage, cheese, and egg on an english muffin, juice, milk, healthy - non-sugary cereal or oatmeal. Every morning!!! I can't eat that much. He has been banned by us so he can't buy sugary breakfasts at school either or I told him I will start making him a sack lunch and close his lunch account at school. That might be a viable consequence, now that I think about it. I also don't have a lot of junk food around and try to keep fruits around. They are only eaten by him when I make him otherwise it is starch and carbohydrate food only that he picks. He also doesn't have an ounce of fat on him. Any energy he consumes is processed right out of his body in the form of energy. (I wish that was my case.)

He is around 5'4'' and weighs 92-95 lbs right now. He's gaining right now so it is probably more.

I will look for that book. I must say, I have never bought anything on ebay and am reluctant because of all that identity (sp?) theft stuff. 73 cents? The charge for buying it would seem to be higher. But I will think about it if I can't find it in the bookstores here or the library.

We do a lot of talking in the car, too. But, it usually isn't about his grades. It's about what happens during the day, probably mostly socially, events, choir, woodshop, p.e. (his "A" subjects - though occasionally those classes too suffer in someway when he doesn't fulfill a responsibility.) etc.

I think I'd probably crash into something if he said "I didn't turn in my science today." I'd, of course, would say, "Why?" He'd casually say, "Oh, I didn't feel like it." (Why is that?) or "I left it in my math folder." (why would it be in his math folder?) or "I didn't finish the last problem." We've tried having those discussions at home after finding out and he always has something to blame on the teacher. We have asked the teachers some really creative questions in response to things Justin has told us. We always assure the teacher that we are supporting them and just want to get to the root of why he didn't hand something in. It has always came back to him just not turning it in.


It usually occurs after wrestling season and before school is out at the end of the year. For the last two years it was in the last quarter of school because wrestling lasted from November until February at school and the club lasted until April/May. I think he was getting tired of wrestling during April so it began then but continued into May. This year wrestling began in September and the school team was ended by Thanksgiving. Wrestling club began right after that and is still going on, but only until the end of March. There might be another club available from March until May. We're checking on it and also talking with Justin to see if he is interested or not. We also asked him all these other times and he said he wanted to do wrestling.

So, even though he has Choir stuff as well as wrestling, school dances, friends to do stuff with, etc. taking those things away doesn't seem to be working. My daughter says she thinks that is because then he can tell people as school he has the meanest parents in the world.....etc......and that's why he can't do anything. And they feel sorry for him and do things for him like give him money to buy a can of pop, candy, etc.

Well. What can I do about that? Sit his friends down and explain to them why he is grounded? I've not done that and haven't thought that would be good for him in the long run. Would his friends still be friends if they know he is lazy?

I'm baffled as to what his real reasons are other than wanting to be in control. And since that would mean failure to pass to the next grade, in this case, I'm not willing to let him have that kind of control if anything I can do to get him to do his work can be found.

I've rambled enough for now.

Thanks for all your help, everyone. I am always grateful for you all.

[Slitter]

I will look for that book. I must say, I have never bought anything on ebay and am reluctant because of all that identity (sp?) theft stuff. 73 cents? The charge for buying it would seem to be higher. But I will think about it if I can't find it in the bookstores here or the library.

It was Amazon, not e-bay. But if it makes you nervous, check here http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&y=0&tn=analyzing+performance+problems&x=0 .This is a group of used book sellers. I have never had a lick of trouble with them and many give very exact descriptions of the book's condition. Just be aware that the shipping is likely to cost more than the book itself.

I'm baffled as to what his real reasons are other than wanting to be in control.

OK, I am going back to psychology 101 here (literally) but if he is blaming the teacher or anyone else he can think of, it sounds like what they called having an "external locus of control" which, assuming I remember rightly, means that you feel you have no control at all. You might want to look into that. Here's one basic link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

And another link with lots more info: http://www.wilderdom.com/psychology/loc/LocusOfControlWhatIs.html

It sounds to me like he isn't looking for control of his life but that he believes that it is impossible for him to ever be in control of what happens in his life. The good news is that most people tend toward a more internal/self-based locus of control as they get older.

[aussieker]

I* have muchthe same problem with my oldest son. He's 16 since Friday and here for Yr 11 and 12 you go to College - kind of like High School and our year just started in Feb.
So the last year and a half he skipped school all the time - course his Dad was sick then died 14 months ago, he has seen Doctors, counsellors and will just flat out lie to me. He ended up the last term of Year 10 going to a Institute of technology to do his Year 10.
So this year I told him he had one term to comit and go to school and if he didn't he would have to go get a job. He is really intelligent and can go back and get 95% on a maths test he never studied for but he just skips school.
Once again the College has rung and said his attendence is poor so we have a meeting at 2pm tomorrow with the Principal. At least this school is more on the ball the other school would phone after 3 weeks or so and say "Oh Michael han't been to school"
He can't tell me why he wont go so I am just thinking he has to get out and work and go back to night school when he wants to get serious.

[Virgo6]

So sorry to hear about your son and the passing of his father. That might be why he is acting this way. If you ever listen to psychologists on the radio or on tv, the first thing they ask is "when did this all start happening" Once they find out that the problem started say a year ago or 6 months ago, they will ask "And what life change happened in that time period". There is usually a connection between the action and some life change. When my youngest daughter was in 4th grade she started jumping off the bus and not wanting to go to school. I had to physically drag her to the car and drag her into the building. What it all boiled down to was that within the months that third grade ended and fourth grade began, the last of her 3 siblings left for college, both sets of grandparents had moved away, her favorite aunt and cousins also and she felt abandoned by all the people she loved. Plus I was very sick at the time and she felt that if she went to school, I might die and leave her also. I hope you can get to the root of your son's problem. Good luck and hugs to you. Keep us posted.

[Mouse9]

Thanks, Slitter.

Those are great articles and I am going to try some of the suggestions they suggested to change behaviors. A lot of it goes back to child development stuff I learned in college. Maybe my son just needs a refresher course and a change of positive reinforcement stuff.

I'm hoping it will be that easy. I am also thinking about starting to go to church near our house and hoping there are some teenagers his age that would discourage those types of behavior as well as provide motivation for him to be with them, so he will, again, want to do something to get something.

We all have things we don't like to do. The point is to get to the place where we go ahead and do those things we know we need to do because we know we should to help us, one way or another.


Aussieker, if you don't mind, I'll be thinking and praying for you. I am so thankful for Survivor Addicts people because they are made up of people who have a lot more information on things than I do.

My son has been conditioned that he is going to college and so the option of stopping school at 16 is understood not to be an option. Of course, when he really is sixteen we will see. He wants to get a part time job at that time (he says) so he will have spending money. I've given the option of doing chores around the home for extra spending money, but he doesn't want to do that.

[aussieker]

It all started before his Dad got real sick - in the May 2005 then in september Richard went into Hospital and then he died in January.
Today we went for a meeting at the College and they basically said he hadn't attended enough ( and he had warnings a week ago) and really that was it.His options are to go to a different campus for at risk students - ones with students who have babies/are not attending etc. So he liked that one as you can also do work from home. He was pretty keen to give it a go.
So i rang my sister and said he would be home early and that he was pretty much done with Canberra College. She now lives with us, so he got home and she lit into him insisting he had been expelled and she will get right in your face and not give up so he lost his temper and knocked her down. I was still at work and he rang and said he had called the police and so I went home. Another sister came and took Izzy to the hospital to check out - she is ok. So I talk to Michael that hitting is not acceptable and we can't live like that - he said "You wont have to soon" so I asked what does that mean and he said "Either I stop failing at life or end it" He does seem really down and has been checked before but I rang the Mental Health Crisis team and they came within 2 hours to talk to him. Tomorrow they will send out a Adolescent Worker - I have been trying to get one from CAMS for more than a year - it's a shame it has to take this to make it happen.

[WOODTURNER]

Have him (with your help and input) construct a budget for living on a salary from a full-time job at most basic rate-of-pay. Share your own household bills, if it helps.

Include EVERYTHING: rent/food/laundry/utilities/furniture/pots&pans/transportation/cell 'phone (HA)/entertainment---EVERYTHING. Have him try to cut costs by deciding what he can do without.

Career counseling: What is he qualified to do? How many of "those" jobs are available? What do they pay? Any benefits? Does he have to join a union?

How will he buy clothes? Get his teeth fixed? Get treatment for the flu--or a broken leg--or get glasses?

He must understand that it is a privelege to live with you and to partake of the many gifts you provide. Consequently, there are rules.

Otherwise, he can legally declare himself an
"Emancipated Minor" and leave your house.:fu:

This just pisses me off!

[frawniemae]

Mouse, sorry for being so long in responding. When Chris was in Jr High he pulled the same stunts with his grades. But every time, right before report cards, he would pull it together and pass. I reitereated time and time again that I knew he could do better but if "just passing" was good enough for him, then he was the one that would have to deal with it if the "just passing" thing didn't quite cut it. Summer school was a very unattractive option for him but he knew that he would have to either be held back or go to summer school if his grades didn't improve that last 9 weeks. And you know? He always brought home Bs. I told him that was good but "imagine the As if you'd just put forth the effort" (his most hated word!) He's now in 11th and he knows the class placement could mean possible scholarships. so he has picked up the pace and goes to tutorials when he needs the extra help. All on his own, I might add. He just had to decide on his own to do something about his grades.

When he'd show me a progress report (one every 4-5 weeks) with Cs and Ds on it, I'd just ask "is this your best?" He knew what he needed to do. and I quit stressing over his grades. Sounds easy huh? It wasn't...I fight being a control freak!


Aussieker, I'm sorry for your loss. Sounds like all involved have had a tough time. But I agree with Woodturner. A reality check seems to be needed. Don't let him use and abuse you and yours. Consequences are sometimes the only way a hard headed boy will learn. A friend of mine has a 21 yearm old who had all kinds of problems in school. He eventually quit going but got his GED. He had major temper problems...even going so far as to ram his car into someone who ticked him off. So far no charges have been filed (prob b/c other guy has outstanding warrants) but he did start going to a counselor. Diagnosed as bipolar and started meds. It's been about a year now and he is doing ever so much better. his mom says he is atotally different person on meds. She is heart broken that he wasn't diagnosed earlier. Whe was so busy just trying to get through one trantrum after the next that she just couldn't see the big picture. She has guilt over that but is just happy that now she has her son back.

Hopefully you can get to the root of your son's problems and find a solution. Violence should never be tolerated. :hug2: to you and yours